Civil War Soldier?

LauraAnnie · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: Civil War Soldier?

Hi all,

I was hoping some of the educated minds on this site could help me out. I came across this picture today at work. I work in an old one-room school house. I was browsing through some old books that we have stored there, and tucked away in one of them was this picture. I took the poor, neglected soldier home with me. At first glance, he seems to be Civil War era. However, I am not quite sure and something makes me think it might be a bit later. To me, he looks like a cavalry soldier. On his collar, there appears to be three stripes. His jacket buttons with 8 buttons (unless there are some I can't see). There are two buttons on his sleve cuff. He wears a forage cap and I can just barely make out some sort of design (corps insigna?) on top. His buckle seems like the ones that have the eagle on the plate. Any ideas?

I apologize for the bad quality of the pics. I don't have a scanner and I just photographed the phot with my digital.

Thanks!
_________________
"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

RickAllen · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:17 am Post subject:

Wow. Nice find!

Our Cav experts will obviously know more than I do, but he doees look to be a Horsie dude and it must not be very far from the CW?

I cant wait to see what the results of your search will be!

Regards,

Rick
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" Do you like French fries, Wyatt Earp?"

James_Longstreet · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject:

I'll tell you THAT Much - if (as I see it) there are 3 stripes on that collar - he is a Confederate Captain. That would pretty much eliminate whatever is on his hat to be a Corps badge - CS did not have those (however it still could be some 'affiliation' marker - like a State button or 'MD Cross' for example).

Too bad you dont have a scanner. Perhaps you could use one in school?
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

LauraAnnie · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject:

I don't believe them to be strips like the Confeds wore on their collars indicating rank. They look much like the type you see on Union shell jackets for artillery or cavalry. There also appears to be two buttons on the side of the collar, just about under the ear.

I have sent this out to the guys in my living history group, and most feel it is a Union shell jacket. They are tossing around the idea that he might be post Civil War, perhaps 1870s. Some also think he's CW era. The buttons on the cuff, however, look different (the spacing) than what I'm used to seeing on CW era shell jackets. Then again, perhaps it's privately contracted?

~Laura
_________________
"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

James_Longstreet · Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:

This is from Bill Christen a.k.a. The Watchdog (and if there is EVER an expert on CW clothing, accoutrements et al - IMHO he is IT!):

A Canadian or British soldier of the 1860 to 1880 period perhaps? Need to see a better scan.

So, your guesses could be correct!!!
Get that thing scanned at school and I'll let Bill to take another look
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

LauraAnnie · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:

All right, all. I filched a scanner in the music lab and scanned in this handsome fellow. I brightened up the photo just a bit in photoshop. Any further ideas with the clearer scan?

Thanks!

~Laura
_________________
"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

markpeters · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

Laura,

As a starter can I suggest the 12th Illinois. They were a Scottish regiment and reputedly wore Tam-o-Shanter caps. I can't find any pictures though.

Best wishes,

Mark

James_Longstreet · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

Howdy-Doody's Grandfather?

The thing on a cap might be a damage to the photo?

I sent Bill Christen the link to this page. Hopefully he'll be able to shed some light for you
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

MarylandReb · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject:

Looks like Indian Wars to me....but hey....what do I know!

Can you get a better scan on the belt buckle? Also the sabre might help identify your fellow.
_________________
He who finds no pleasure in a naked sword, a falcon's flight, a noble horse, a beautiful woman, has no real lust for life. (Early German Sword inscription)

Mark

LauraAnnie · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject:

I'm hearing from the guys in my history group that it may be post war due to the curve in the saber and the fact that the pants are darker than the jacket. i'll be seeing them this weekend so they can see it in person. I'll continue to keep you posted!

Eric, do you have any thoughts since he appears to be cav?

~Laura
_________________
"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

The General · Living Legend Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 2794

Laura,

Sadly, no. Uniforms are not my strong point. Sorry.

Eric
_________________
"If you want to have some fun, jine the cav'ry!"

MarylandReb · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject:

http://www.19th-century-us-history.com/uniforms_indian-wars_us.htm

this seems pretty close

U.S. Enlisted and NCOs Shell Jacket (Union)

These waist length jackets were worn by many Civil War Union Cavalry and Artillery units throughout the war and by Dragoon and Mounted Rifle units early in the Civil War. Several Infantry units and some state militia wore untrimmed versions of this uniform jacket, commonly called a Roundabout. The infantry version was created in the field by cutting the skirt off the US Infantry frockcoat in warmer weather to make a shorter jacket. Although not regulation, this was considerably more comfortable to wear during the summer months. Our shell jackets and roundabouts are made from a good grade of dark blue wool and the standard lining for enlisted men is natural muslin. Optional chest padding and special lining materials are available at extra cost.
Standard braid on the M1858 Regulation Trimmed SHELLJACKET is cotton twill. Worsted wool braid is available at extra cost. The M1858 jacket has two bolsters in back to support the waist belt. The jacket front has 12 small US Eagle buttons supplied. Collar has the double side buttons.

ROUNDABOUTS have a 9 button front, with medium sized buttons and plain, but shorter, collar.

Branch trim on shell jackets: Artillery - Red, Cavalry - Yellow or Mounted Rifles - Green.
_________________
He who finds no pleasure in a naked sword, a falcon's flight, a noble horse, a beautiful woman, has no real lust for life. (Early German Sword inscription)

Mark

James_Longstreet · Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:39 am Post subject:

OK - here is the latest input from Bill Christen after he took a look at the scanned picture:

Looking at the better scan, the coat appears to be an 1855 pattern, enlisted cavalry uniform jacket (12 buttons). The uniform jacket style was also the same for light artillery (scarlet trim) , dragoons (orange
trim) and mounted rifles (green trim). The collar trim, by regulation had the button devices, but the two inside pieces of lace were usually doubled (six rows of lace on the collar). One might also think that the yellow trim might appear darker in the image, but that is not always the case. The saber and scabbard (what I can see of them) are similar in design to the standard issue for cavalry. The forage cap and belt plate also appear to fit the notion of a US soldier. The trousers appear to be dark--early war--which the format (no borders) of the image might suggest.

Some states adopted the US Army's uniform regulations and the state-issued coats could be similar. There is no easy way of further pinpointing whether he is a regular or a volunteer.

My primary references: Army Blue, The Uniform of Uncle Sam's Regulars,
1848-1873 by John Langellier and American Military Equipage, 1851-1872 by Frederick Todd.
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

billy_yank · Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:06 am Post subject:

I never cease to be amazed by the collective knowledge of the posters on this board.

GKWEAGLE1 · Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:18 am Post subject:

I have Troianis book on uniforms at home.. Tonight I will take a look there as well..

I recall this sure looks like a CW Era Cav guy to me...

Hmmmm I LOVE a mystery!!!!!

JIM

_________________
"The Flag, THE FLAG, Oh THE FLAG! G.K. Warrens last words on his death bed, August 8,1882
There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell. W.T. Sherman