class rank at West Point

[anna]

You're certainly correct, General, that Sally's George, aka "My Soldier" is more fictional than non-fictional. But in reference to biographies I've read, Stephen Lang's Pickett closely matched my personal vision of what he was like (actually, I've never read "da book" so can't comment as to the similarities between Pickett in the book versus movie). I guess we all have our own vision of what our Civil War heros were like as people - their personalites, voices, etc...:>)

I imagine when "da movie" and "da movie II" came out, there was probably a very interesting thread on one of the forums regarding who was the "better" Lee - Martin Sheen or Robert Duvall (my vote's for Sheen)! LOL!

Anna
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"Trust in God and Fear Nothing."

Gen. Lewis A. Armistead, CSA

[Samhood]

Ladies and Gents:

A while ago I was doing a bit of digging into Gen JB Hood's low West Point ranking and something occured to me that everyone might want to keep in mind when considering class rankings.

Hood graduated in 1853, ranked 44 out of 52, but I discovered that there were 92 (if I recall correctly) cadets that started in Hood's class in 1849. So 40 cadets were either expelled, flunked out or quit between 1849 and 1853. If we assume that most were expelled or flunked out, we should consider that Hood finished 44 out of 92.

In reality, every cadet that ever finished last in their WP class really wasn't last if you consider those who got kicked out or flunked out. I don't consider Custer and Pickett as last, they really finished--in a way--near the middle of their classes.

For what it's worth.

Sam

[anna]

A very good point, Sam. Simply knowing one's rank doesn't truly tell the whole story. When considering the demanding curriculum and how easy it was to rack up demerits, it was truly an accomplishment to have graduated, whether your ranking was at the top or the bottom. Lewis Armistead was expelled from West Point due to an incident where he cracked a plate over fellow cadet, Jubal Early's, head. And yet, he turned out to be a pretty good soldier...

Anna
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"Trust in God and Fear Nothing."

Gen. Lewis A. Armistead, CSA

[James_Longstreet]

I would give my right arm to find out EXACTLY what was it that prompted Lo to break that plate over Old Jube's head!
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I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

[James_Longstreet]

Sam's post got me thinking on something else. Coupled with couple of answers I had to provide to an Event co-ordinator fo the local college I stuck my nose into the Graduating Ranks of West Point. Because I centered on specific Generals (due to mentioned answers) here is what I got:

Class of 1835 - 56 graduated; MEADE, George Gordon graduated 19th

Class of 1840 - 42 graduated; THOMAS, George Henry graduated 12th

Class of 1842 - 56 graduated; LONGSTREET, James graduated 54th

Class of 1844 - 25 graduated; HANCOCK, Winfield Scott graduated 18th

Now, if we look at it from the PERCENTAGE (# of Graduates = 100%) point then

* Meade winds up to be 34th
* Thomas - 28th
* Longstreet - 1st ... OK seriously - 96th and
* Hancock - 72nd

That IMHO represents a better defined standing
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

[Samhood]

Guys and Gals:

I just started reading the book, "Last in Their Class: Custer, Pickett and the Goats of West Point." "Goats" are what the cadets call the graduate who finishes last in the class. Those in the lower quartile were (are) called "The Immortals."

Although I just started reading, the author explains that the corps of cadets have generally always admired the lower ranked cadets, who often were (are) charismatic, entertaining, and usually bright, but only apply themselves when necessary to accomplish tasks.

He gives examples of Goats and Immortals who won Medals of Honor, and also identifies many cadets who graduated highly ranked but were professional failures.

Interesting read so far.

Signed, Sam Hood
Kentucky Military Institute, 1970
(An "Immortal" if we would have had them!)

[vtclark]

Greetings Everyone!

I'm new to forum, but I wanted to give a little insight about the class rankings and their significance for West Point graduates. You have to think a little differently about society in the Antebellum era versus today.

Social standing and the ability to rise in social status was far more important than to these men than all the education they could receive at West Point. Most of these men were appointed to the academy based on their political ties and family standing. Consider Robert E. Lee as an example. Lee’s father had left his family poor as dirt, but the Lee family name represented everything that embodied the creation of the United States. Money was overlooked if the family name was respectable. Everyone knew what Lee’s father had done, there is no doubting that. However, Lee was trying to rebuild the family name, and had allies and political ties to get him to Point. He learned the skills of war on a different plane than many other cadets because he felt a duty to his family to make right the wrongs of his father.

Jackson received an appointment to the Point after another cadet was unable to attend. The appointment came through the political networks among those who respected the young boy’s drive and ambition. Jackson had to prove himself worthy of his new status, and he most certainly gave it his all.

West Point cadets learned more than just military tactics. They learned manners and how to act like gentlemen. They were expected to be “the knight and shining armor” figures that women would swoon over. To do poorly at the Point was not as important as the chance to attend. Military ability was only important on the battlefield. War with Mexico was the litmus test – those who did well in the Mexican war found it easy to command in the Civil War.

A family could find a new social status if a child was appointed to West Point and even more if the child excelled. So much of this ideology was strictly cultural and social in nature.

My undergraduate honors thesis focused on the expansion of central ideas from a great book by Bertram Wyatt-Brown entitled “Southern Honor: Ethics and Behavior in the Old South”. It was an excellent read, and provided a lot of insight for me in a section of work that focused on the need to attend a military academy for status. Furthermore, it gives a lot of insight into the mindset of the Southern male when the Civil War began.

Violet Clark

Wyatt-Brown, B. (1982). Southern Honor: Ethics and Behavior in the Old South. New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195033108.
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Fellow Citizens, we cannot escape history. ~Abraham Lincoln