Is this war still relevant?

[proudpa]

Hey y'all. New member here. I think I've always had a fascination with the ACW, I blame it on my father, but how is still relevant today? I ask because I've actually deciided to write a term paper about it, for writing not history, and I'm curious to others opinions. Also, any resources you might suggest would be greatly appreciated.

[James_Longstreet]

Greetings and Welcome!

My personal opinion for what its worth is that the relevancy of the War lies in the fact that it allowed the Federal Government to flex its muscle in the areas where it was forbidden by Constitution to do so. For one - Lincoln set the presedence that still carries on in today's times.

The issue is complex and I unquestionably have a good number of folks who disagree with me, just as well as those who agree.

Suffice to say that I strongly believe that had the Confederacy won - we would have had a totally different Country today (not TWO, mind you -still ONE, but different)

I don't know of too many sources on a subject, since it is somewhat conjecturatory.

However, for a good view of Confederate causes and issues as pertains to US Constitution I wholeheartedly recommend When In the Course of Human Events by Charles Adams
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

[proudpa]

I appreciate your thoughts and suggestion.

[GKWEAGLE1]

Welcome!

Lets see is it still relevant? All we have to do is remember Shelby Footes words from the PBS Civil War series.

To understand where we are today, we must understand the Civil War, though there was NOTHING Civil about.

That still stands today.
One more thing. As I have continued on studying it, I have developed a deep appreciation for those who foought in the CW. Both Sides. I repeat both sides.

I had at least three relatives that served. All wore Union Blue and served in either NJ regiments or a PA regiment. All survived. But there is that bond that has developed between all of those who served. All.

Once again. Welcome..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its good to have you here...
BTW.. May I encourage you to join us the end of May, 29,39 and 31 at Gettysburg. See the muster thread here on the board.
JIM
_________________
"The Flag, THE FLAG, Oh THE FLAG! G.K. Warrens last words on his death bed, August 8,1882
There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell. W.T. Sherman

[corydon]

Even while some that followed him like to point to his administration as some kind of precendence, I can't blame Lincoln for the growth of our Federal gov't to the size it is now. He had to deal with an internal crisis from day one of his Presidency never seen before or since.

I still like to think that there are elements of states' rights that I find appealing, but that is tempered by the acts of our more liberal states that cause strife and debate in the other states.

One positive thing I would like to point out is that we can test something in an individual state, see if it works, and if it doesn't the entire country didn't necessarily have to suffer for it. For example, perhaps we can watch a state like New Hampshire try their form of universal health care, see it fail, and then move on. Evidently it's not enough to witness other countries health care systems fall well short of our current one.
_________________
"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."
- Abraham Lincoln

[James_Longstreet]

Chris - I most definitely understand what you are saying and in a certain way - you are absolutely right. Abe DID have a "doozie" to deal with
(Just a quick "side note": When asked my PERSONAL opinion of Mr. Lincoln I always answer that I despite him as President (for what I consider to be his blatant violation of USC) but very-very-very-very GRUDGINGLY admire him as a man who stood up and said 'I gotta do what I gotta do')
However I beg you to consider that ANYTHING (!) The Federal Government has become (in size and all the other endeavours) is directly related to his actions. Once you can see that you CAN do "x" and get away with it - why, you just simply push on and the next thing you now 'x' morphed into 'y' and 'z' and so on

Which brings us to today.....
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

[corydon]

I may not have been as clear as I wanted to be.
Lincoln did a lot of things that can be pointed to that pushed the boundaries or possibly went outside of the Constitution, but to summarize and add to it, we've had over 140 years to "get things right" and not grow gov't anymore.
Sure, someone can point to Lincoln's tenure as an excuse to grow gov't, but it still could have been stopped.

I still hear him blamed in some circles for the creation of the income tax, but in his time, it was only supposed to be temporary. There are other factors and I don't want to get into the history of income taxes, but the tax could have been turned back.
Unfortunately, we see how "temporary" stuff never seems to end. Fortunately, some states are able to get by without adding in their own income taxes.
I think everyone understands that we have to have some taxes. It's just that most of us who don't live in Idaho don't want some of OUR tax money going there to help fund an amusement park or to go somewhere else to help supplement the clueless. (I also don't want to have my electricity or water usage monitored to the point that Big Brother tries to limit the amount I can use.)

I'll stop before I get any further off topic.
_________________
"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."
- Abraham Lincoln

[James_Longstreet]

Well... speaking of "temporary" - here in PA we still are paying the "johnstown flood" tax
_________________
I Remain
Your Ob't Servant
Allan
Time sets all things right. Error lives but a day. Truth is eternal.
A Great Civilization is not Conquered from Without until It has Destroyed Itself from Within

[Hog_Flambe]

[Paladin]

It should also be noted that aside from those things previously mentioned, Lincoln during that war reformed the banks,established a national currency and established a standard for the width of railroad trackbeds,as he worked to hold the nation together through a violent four year national bloodbath, dealt with a frequently uncooperative Congress,Generals looking to make themselves political figures, Generals who were convinced they knew more about everything, (certainly more about governing a nation at war)than he did, a wife who's questionable sanity gave him problems (especialy following the deaths of their sons) and a cabinet of advisers, some of whom felt they should be in Lincoln's place and acted accordingly by plotting against him. Lincoln also had a Secretary of State who thought starting another war (with Mexico)might well be the best way to avoid or abbreviate the one they already had on their hands, supposedly by stimulating latent partiotic feelings within the nation-North and South. Lincoln also had to contend with his own tendencies toward melancholy, while he struggled with insomnia,and his own fears; a seemingly unending list of visitors and jobseekers, and a less than responsive bureaucracy. In addition there were a host of other problems of lesser consequence. Not bad for a man who has been compared to having what equates to a fourth grade education. ---Paladin

[CapitalCity]

o The Civil War is very relevant to our teaching of history. And our understanding of the past influences how we perceive current events and plan for future ones. So yes, it's very relevant.

o I often hear criticism of Lincoln for doing things that were perhaps "extra-constitutional", to use word of my own making. And I understand these arguments.

But it's key to note: In times of war, decisions are made for the sake of political or military expediency, that would otherwise be seen as illegal or even immoral. War is hell, and Lincoln's acts were made in the heat of hellfire.

But if certain non-pre-existing powers have become vested in the government due to the war, that is not Lincoln's fault. That is the "fault" of post-war politicians. And I think it's important to place "blame" on those men and not Lincoln himself.

[Baconnaise]