The History (?) Channel

corydon · General Joined: Apr 13, 2006 Posts: 2995 Location: Indy

Not necessary. The simple question was asked and answered.
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hawkeyejohn · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:08 am Post subject:

I love this place but have no idea why it is on the channel who shall not be named.

http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2008/12/08/Metro/Local.Diner.Eggs.On.History-3574133.shtml

corydon · General Joined: Apr 13, 2006 Posts: 2995 Location: Indy

We bash the History Channel when it's down, so I'd at least like to acknowledge that their programming has been a lot better this week.

They've replayed their 'Presidents' series. Although perhaps a little sugarcoated, it's still pretty interesting. They've also had a few programs on Lincoln, including the hunt for John Wilkes Booth. They had a program this morning called Fort Knox revealed. Although it probably wouldn't interest me, at least it was historical. I've not seen any of their non-history programming this week so perhaps they are going back to their roots, if at least for only one week.

I only ask that they air programming that relates to their name. I still wouldn't watch every show, such as something on the Korean War, but their reputation would be a lot better if they only aired historically based stuff. It wasn't so bad when they were known as the Hitler or WWII channel.
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"Let us have faith that right makes might..."
- Abraham Lincoln

corydon · General Joined: Apr 13, 2006 Posts: 2995 Location: Indy

The program on Andrew Jackson last night was pretty good. It was in one of what I would call their "live action/documentary" formats. Meaning that you had actors/actresses acting out scenes (with little dialogue) while Edward Hermann was narrating. A good rule of thumb for the History Channel is that if Edward Hermann is narrating the program, it's probably going to be pretty good. He did the Presidents series and one on the American Revolution, plus others I can't recall by name right now.
The program didn't try to sugar coat the Trail of Tears either. Although at least one historian tried to at least explain that it was an American policy and not necessarily Jackson's exclusively. Not sure the descendant of Indians on the show would have bought it.

Tonight at 9:00 eastern, they've got a show on trying to steal Lincoln's body. It looks interesting and I don't know nearly enough about that topic so I suppose I'll buy their "facts" hook, line, and sinker. (Unless they give me reason for skepticism.)
_________________
"Let us have faith that right makes might..."
- Abraham Lincoln

GhostofShiloh · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:15 am Post subject:

I agree.... I enjoyed the show and thought they did a pretty good job overall.

One point of contention for me though (and I don'tmean anyting insensitive or belittling about the Trail of Tears). WHile the Trail of Tears was inexcusable and a sad period for the country.... I do take some offense that they Indians consider Jackson to be their Hitler. While the relocation and Trail of Tears was bad, it doesn't equate to the despicable, evil thing Hitler did.

corydon · General Joined: Apr 13, 2006 Posts: 2995 Location: Indy

I can't say how they should or shouldn't feel, but there seems to be an inordinate amount of revisionist history whereby Indians are labeled as a wholly peaceful and innocent race without any culpability in some of the atrocities that occurred. They certainly had their own share of aggressive behavior.
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"Let us have faith that right makes might..."
- Abraham Lincoln

GhostofShiloh · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:

Agreed... what is also glossed over with most of the revisionist history is that the Indians also had a Civil war going on between themselves and their tribes.

MarylandReb · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

GhostofShiloh · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

I am not condoning or excusing what we did much of it was deplorable and is indeed a blot on our history.

I just don't see how you could equate what Hitler did (the medical experimentation, the furnaces, the gassings, etc..) to what happened to the Indian. Maybe that makes me insensitive or whatever.. but I just dont see how they can be considered to be similar. The Indians were removed to reservations (not the proper course I will grant) not herded up and put in camps for the sole purpose of destroying the race as was done to the jews in the holocaust. It was not a government policy to make the Indians extinct, whereas that was Hitler's exact purpose towards the Jews.

MarylandReb · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject:

I'm not trying to start a battle of semantics. I guarantee if you lived in the tidewater region of the country and the military walked into your house right now and said GhostofShiloh we're moving you and your family to Oklahoma by forced march. You have to march there in the winter and watch your family and friends die. Many are shackled, don't recieve proper medical care or proper rations and 20% of your family and friends die along the way. I can assure you that you'll think Andrew Jackson is the worst Devil there is. The Cherokees were peaceful, adopted the white man's way. What do you call the way our government handled the Indians for generations.......re-education?

Groups Killed Source IN ww2 by the Nazis
Jews 5.9 million [30]
Soviet POWs 2–3 million [31]
Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million [32][33]
Romanies 220,000–1,500,000 [34][35]
Disabled 200,000–250,000 [36]
Freemasons 80,000–200,000 [37]
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000 [38]
Jehovah's
Witnesses 2,500–5,000 [39]

The North American Indian population has been estimated as high 15 million in 1500 but reduced to barely 237,000 Indians in 1900.......you can draw your own conclusions.
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He who finds no pleasure in a naked sword, a falcon's flight, a noble horse, a beautiful woman, has no real lust for life. (Early German Sword inscription)

Mark

GhostofShiloh · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject:

Again.. I am not trying to belittle or lighten the atrocity done to the Indians by our early government. I agree with you that it was inexcusable and deplorable. I also understand why they feel so strongly against Jackson as they do. My only point is that he is not on the same level of evil as Hitler.

I think it can be argued that had Hitler lived and been in power long enough, the number of Jews he would have killed would be much worse than the Indians lost. Plus the decline in the number of native americans were attributed to much more than just Jackson's relocation policy.

Again... we are having a peaceful friendly discussion and I hope you dont take my disputing you the wrong way. I just dont agree that Jackson is as bad a "devil" or evil as Hitler. What he did was wrong, deplorable, inexcusable and an atrocity, but it is not on the same par as Hitler...it just isn't.

GKWEAGLE1 · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Guys,

I would just encourage you to continue to keep it civil.
Its the right thing to do.. And it will also keep the General from shutting this down!!!

Jim

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"The Flag, THE FLAG, Oh THE FLAG! G.K. Warrens last words on his death bed, August 8,1882
There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell. W.T. Sherman

GhostofShiloh · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:

To all,

It is not my intention to start a flame war or anything like it. And if anyone has taken any of my posts as such or to be offensive, I do apologize. As a relatively impersonal bystander of both issues (being that I am not of Indian descent or Jewish descent) I just don't agree that Andrew Jackson and Hitler are on the same plane of evil or devil for their actions.

The General · Living Legend Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 2794

Apology accepted. However, I REALLY don't like the turn that this discussion took. Discussions of the Holocaust, the genocide of the Indians, and any of these other topics that triggered this discussion to get out of hand simply are not appropriate here. They are off topic, and never should have happened in the first place. The next time something like this happens and it gets ugly, the person responsible for causing it to get ugly gets excommunicated. There will be no right of appeal and there will be no discussion of it. I trust that I have made myself abundantly clear.

This discussion has ended. This thread is being locked to ensure that it's over.

Eric
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